The ketogenic diet and cancer

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RE: The ketogenic diet and cancer

by chalmj on Sun Oct 29, 2017 04:25 PM

Quote | Reply

Jack,

Yes, I didn't do the standard of care (SOC) that I was offered which was cisplatin and radiation. I put off SOC to have some time to do some research as my tumor was so small at the time. Yours sounds small too. 

I learned the full 6 weeks, 70 greys, destroys salivary glands blood vessels and severly damages taste buds. The entire oral cavity is flooded with radiation. It is not like cyberknife where the radiation is directed only at the tumor.This may not be the case for you. Where do they intend to treat - just the nose area or the entire oral cavity?

I read many post treatment HNSCC patient forum posts and they conviniced me my fear of the radiation was justified. Many must live on a feeding tube the rest of their lives. Again this is flooding the oral cavity. I wonder if that is what they intend for you if the cancer is just considered in the nose area?

It took 4 years to find a treatment that works. I wish I had found this path sooner, my tumor is quite extensive.

I recommend you do research to decide which way to go. Implementing the diet is complicated. You'll need to check out videos on you tube from doctors like Dr. Thomas N. Seyfried, Dr. Mercola, Dr. Ron Rosedale, Dr. Gundry, Dr. David Pearlmutter, etc. to decide if that is the way you wish to go. This is not alternative therapy - these doctors are MDs.

If you decide to do the restricted ketogenic diet, which can be implemented no matter what the treatment decision, the best book to get is Dr. Mercola's newest book - Fat for Fuel. It details how to do this diet which requires a macronutrient tracker and blood glucose and blood keytone measurement.

I read a few books on probiotics. Pills, supplements are not as effective as fermented foods. The bacteria have a much better chance of surviving when their growth medium is injested with them and you get their metabolites, the things they create during fermentation which are also good for you.

I use Bravo yogurt as it has 42 strains. However kefir or plain yogurt with Bifidus strains may be good too. Dr. Ruggerio mentions Bifidobactera strains in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol96H-DlaWA

and I think I already posted this mouse study where bifidus strains shrunk tumors:

https://news.uchicago.edu/article/2015/11/06/gut-bacteria-ca

I guess you weren't offered immunotherapy. They won't let me and probably you have it. Cisplatin was released in 1978 while access to the immunotherapy drugs released by the FDA for HNSCC patients in mid 2016 is denied. Unbelieveable really. 

John

RE: The ketogenic diet and cancer

by jackstew on Mon Oct 30, 2017 03:26 AM

Quote | Reply

On Oct 29, 2017 4:25 PM chalmj wrote:

Jack,

Yes, I didn't do the standard of care (SOC) that I was offered which was cisplatin and radiation. I put off SOC to have some time to do some research as my tumor was so small at the time. Yours sounds small too. 

I learned the full 6 weeks, 70 greys, destroys salivary glands blood vessels and severly damages taste buds. The entire oral cavity is flooded with radiation. It is not like cyberknife where the radiation is directed only at the tumor.This "" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://tumor.This " target="_blank" rel="nofollow">tumor.This may not be the case for you. Where do they intend to treat - just the nose area or the entire oral cavity?

I read many post treatment HNSCC patient forum posts and they conviniced me my fear of the radiation was justified. Many must live on a feeding tube the rest of their lives. Again this is flooding the oral cavity. I wonder if that is what they intend for you if the cancer is just considered in the nose area?

It took 4 years to find a treatment that works. I wish I had found this path sooner, my tumor is quite extensive.

I recommend you do research to decide which way to go. Implementing the diet is complicated. You'll need to check out videos on you tube from doctors like Dr. Thomas N. Seyfried, Dr. Mercola, Dr. Ron Rosedale, Dr. Gundry, Dr. David Pearlmutter, etc. to decide if that is the way you wish to go. This is not alternative therapy - these doctors are MDs.

If you decide to do the restricted ketogenic diet, which can be implemented no matter what the treatment decision, the best book to get is Dr. Mercola's newest book - Fat for Fuel. It details how to do this diet which requires a macronutrient tracker and blood glucose and blood keytone measurement.

I read a few books on probiotics. Pills, supplements are not as effective as fermented foods. The bacteria have a much better chance of surviving when their growth medium is injested with them and you get their metabolites, the things they create during fermentation which are also good for you.

I use Bravo yogurt as it has 42 strains. However kefir or plain yogurt with Bifidus strains may be good too. Dr. Ruggerio mentions Bifidobactera strains in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol96H-DlaWA "" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol96H-DlaWA " target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol96H-DlaWA

and I think I already posted this mouse study where bifidus strains shrunk tumors:

https://news.uchicago.edu/article/2015/11/06/gut-bacteria-ca n-dramatically-amplify-cancer-immunotherapy"" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://news.uchicago.edu/article/2015/11/06/gut-bacteria-ca target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://news.uchicago.edu/article/2015/11/06/gut-bacteria-ca

I guess you weren't offered immunotherapy. They won't let me and probably you have it. Cisplatin was released in 1978 while access to the immunotherapy drugs released by the FDA for HNSCC patients in mid 2016 is denied. Unbelieveable really. 

John

John,

Thanks so much for getting back to me.  I feel I now know what I have to do and that is have a second meeting with the doctors at 21st Century Oncology and get some answers to questions you have raised, namely do they utilize cyberknife treatment and will it be precise and not the whole oral cavity.  Also, do they offer immunotherapy and if so why wasn't it suggested for me?

Even if they give me all the right answers I am seriously thinking of skipping the radiation.  I have learned so much from reading your posts and the enclosed links.  Am definitely going to order the Bravo yoghurt.  Very impressed with Dr. Ruggiero.

Today I bought Trueplus Keytone test strips at Walgreens and did my first test which showed that I have a long ways to go before achieving ketosis.  The Metabolic Approach to Cancer authors want 75% of the diet to be from healthy fats.  Am wondering what you would eat in a day to satisfy that requirement.  Have been eating avocados, and coconut oil mayo but I need to find more sources of fat--today I did buy ghee and MCT oil--not sure how to use the oil.

John, thank you again for all the great info you have sent my way.

Jack

RE: The ketogenic diet and cancer

by chalmj on Mon Oct 30, 2017 03:31 PM

Quote | Reply

Jack,

I doubt it is cyberknife treatment they have planned for you. 

My radiologist told me he was going to do bilateral treatment which means flood both the left and right side but that he would not use the full 70 greys on the right side so he said I would have some salivary gland function left on the right side.Even after all these years my right side remains clear such that I don't think it was needed on the right side. 

You should ask if the radiation will destroy the blood vessels in the treatment area. This is why these areas don't heal and I see posts from HNSCC patients 13 months post treatment where their throats are getting worse/ not healing because the blood vessels have been damaged or destroyed.

My best advice to you is to continue to educate yourself by watching you tube videos from doctors on things like the micobiome, ketogenic diet, immunotherapy, etc. You may find you will quickly become more educated than your oncologist. It amazes me how we think our doctors are experts yet all they really know is how to administer the treatments dictated to them by the drug companies that control the FDA where the key objective is to make money not treatment efficacy.

I still find it hard to believe we are denied access as a first line treatment to the latest less toxic, less morbid immunotherapy drugs.

I start the day with tea that has kerrygold butter (grass-fed cows) or coconut oil and MCT oil in my tea. Then I eat only once a day between 6-9P (intermittent fasting) mostly vegetables like napa cabbage, brocolli, brussel sprouts, olives, cauliflour, peppers, cheese and I use melted butter or coconut oil has a salad dressing. I snack on whipped cream, macadamia nuts, pork rinds with cream cheese, 90% cocoa chocolate smothered in kefir or store bought yogurt. I use the Bravo rectally 60 ml at a time. Cancer patients should eat 90% raw alkaline food because raising PH is key for cancer patients.

Dr. Mercola talks about what to eat/ how to implement a restricted ketogenic diet in his book Fat for Fuel.

John

RE: The ketogenic diet and cancer

by jackstew on Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:58 AM

Quote | Reply

On Oct 30, 2017 3:31 PM chalmj wrote:

Jack,

I doubt it is cyberknife treatment they have planned for you. 

My radiologist told me he was going to do bilateral treatment which means flood both the left and right side but that he would not use the full 70 greys on the right side so he said I would have some salivary gland function left on the right side.Even "" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://side.Even " target="_blank" rel="nofollow">side.Even after all these years my right side remains clear such that I don't think it was needed on the right side. 

You should ask if the radiation will destroy the blood vessels in the treatment area. This is why these areas don't heal and I see posts from HNSCC patients 13 months post treatment where their throats are getting worse/ not healing because the blood vessels have been damaged or destroyed.

My best advice to you is to continue to educate yourself by watching you tube videos from doctors on things like the micobiome, ketogenic diet, immunotherapy, etc. You may find you will quickly become more educated than your oncologist. It amazes me how we think our doctors are experts yet all they really know is how to administer the treatments dictated to them by the drug companies that control the FDA where the key objective is to make money not treatment efficacy.

I still find it hard to believe we are denied access as a first line treatment to the latest less toxic, less morbid immunotherapy drugs.

I start the day with tea that has kerrygold butter (grass-fed cows) or coconut oil and MCT oil in my tea. Then I eat only once a day between 6-9P (intermittent fasting) mostly vegetables like napa cabbage, brocolli, brussel sprouts, olives, cauliflour, peppers, cheese and I use melted butter or coconut oil has a salad dressing. I snack on whipped cream, macadamia nuts, pork rinds with cream cheese, 90% cocoa chocolate smothered in kefir or store bought yogurt. I use the Bravo rectally 60 ml at a time. Cancer patients should eat 90% raw alkaline food because raising PH is key for cancer patients.

Dr. Mercola talks about what to eat/ how to implement a restricted ketogenic diet in his book Fat for Fuel.

John

John.

Thanks for the great tip regarding the blood vessels.

I'll make it a point to find out if the radiation will involve destroying the blood vessels.  If they plan on that my decision will be easy--no radiation for me.

Will also look into the idea of immunotherapy instead of radiation.  I have ordered Fat for Fuel.  I read Dr. Mercola's blog every day.

Will send a new message tomorrow after my discussion with the radiation oncologist.

Jack

RE: The ketogenic diet and cancer

by chalmj on Tue Oct 31, 2017 04:26 PM

Quote | Reply

Jack,

Yes,please let me know what the radiologist says. Tell the oncologist you want 21'st century treatment (their name) like immunotherapy not 20th century treatment like cisplatin (1978) and or radiation.

I must tell you that in my opinion it is quite likely that probiotics may be as effective as the immunotherapy drugs but you will never see this in conventional approaches - no money in it. Yet when it comes to modulating the immune system the research shows probiotics are the best known method at doing that.

It is a known fact that the blood vessels are destroyed to the jawbone such that if an injury or a tooth is removed in the future the jawbone may not heal leading to jawbone removal. Still, this may not apply to you. Depends on where the radiologist intends to apply the radiation and how much radiation. If it is the full 6 weeks/ 70 greys in the oral cavity that is quite damaging.  

John

RE: The ketogenic diet and cancer

by jackstew on Tue Oct 31, 2017 05:10 PM

Quote | Reply

On Oct 31, 2017 4:26 PM chalmj wrote:

Jack,

Yes,please let me know what the radiologist says. Tell the oncologist you want 21'st century treatment (their name) like immunotherapy not 20th century treatment like cisplatin (1978) and or radiation.

I must tell you that in my opinion it is quite likely that probiotics may be as effective as the immunotherapy drugs but you will never see this in conventional approaches - no money in it. Yet when it comes to modulating the immune system the research shows probiotics are the best known method at doing that.

It is a known fact that the blood vessels are destroyed to the jawbone such that if an injury or a tooth is removed in the future the jawbone may not heal leading to jawbone removal. Still, this may not apply to you. Depends on where the radiologist intends to apply the radiation and how much radiation. If it is the full 6 weeks/ 70 greys in the oral cavity that is quite damaging.  

John

John,

Leaving soon for my appointment.  Glad to get your opinion on the probiotics since I intend to order the Bravo (hopefully later today).  It sounds to me that you feel the probiotics are just as important or moreso than the ketogenic diet.  

My plastic surgeon told me that when they got done with the six weeks of radiation he would likely have to do more plastic surgery on my nose because it would be partially destroyed.

I'll get back to you in a few hours--should be interesting and am guessing they will try to sell me on the original plan.

Jack

RE: The ketogenic diet and cancer

by jackstew on Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:33 AM

Quote | Reply

John,

Just got in.  I am pretty certain am going to skip the radiation.  My oncologist couldn't assure me that no blood vessels would be damaged.  She did seem pretty confident that they would get all the cancer but I remain skeptical.  She did say I would need less grays than you were given and they would not be going into the oral cavity.  She said my cancer is near the tip of the nose and that I was at stage 2 (over two centimeters).

Tomorrow I'll order the Bravo yogurt.  Am looking forward to being able to read Fat for Fuel.  Hope you had a good day and are doing well.

Jack

By the way, this a.m. I started my day with a hot beverage made by boiling water with broccoli sprouts, garlic, tumeric root, celery, bragg's apple cider vinegar and extra virgin coconut oil.

RE: The ketogenic diet and cancer

by chalmj on Wed Nov 01, 2017 04:00 PM

Quote | Reply

Jack,

Interesting. Did she say how many greys, how many weeks? and where/ how much area the radiation would be applied to. Did she confirm the area to be treated is flooded with radiation rather than just targeting the tumor?

I was told the radiation is 90% effective at getting rid of the tumor so they are pretty confident of that - it is just that it is also so damaging to the surrounding tissue in the oral cavity.

Did you ask about immunotherapy? I don't think you can get it without first taking a platnium based chemotherapy.

That beverage sounds good. Did it taste good? When I eat my cruciferious vegtables, brocolli, cauliflour, cabbage, brussel sprouts, kale, etc I sprinkle mustard seed powder on them based on an article from Dr. Mercola who indicates it enhances absorbtion of the sulforaphane, their key cancer fighting compound. 

I wonder how you can monitor progress to determine what the tumor is doing?

John

RE: The ketogenic diet and cancer

by jackstew on Wed Nov 01, 2017 04:56 PM

Quote | Reply

On Nov 01, 2017 4:00 PM chalmj wrote:

Jack,

Interesting. Did she say how many greys, how many weeks? and where/ how much area the radiation would be applied to. Did she confirm the area to be treated is flooded with radiation rather than just targeting the tumor?

I was told the radiation is 90% effective at getting rid of the tumor so they are pretty confident of that - it is just that it is also so damaging to the surrounding tissue in the oral cavity.

Did you ask about immunotherapy? I don't think you can get it without first taking a platnium based chemotherapy.

That beverage sounds good. Did it taste good? When I eat my cruciferious vegtables, brocolli, cauliflour, cabbage, brussel sprouts, kale, etc I sprinkle mustard seed powder on them based on an article from Dr. Mercola who indicates it enhances absorbtion of the sulforaphane, their key cancer fighting compound. 

I wonder how you can monitor progress to determine what the tumor is doing?

John

John,

She mentioned approximately 65 greys but wasn't specific.  This would be over a six week period, five times a week.  She also said that my cancer was a deeply infiltrative basal cell carcinoma and that after treatment the only way to determine if the cancer was gone would be to do a biopsy--ct scans or mri's would not show anything.  This makes me think that if I don't use the radiation and fight it with the keto diet, Bravo probiotics, etc. that I might be able to have a biopsy in six months to see if the cancer had grown or was shrinking.

I believe she did say the treatment would just target the tumor but that she couldn't guarantee that no blood vessels would be harmed.

I did ask about immunotherapy and don't remember her exact words, except that she didn't recommend it for me.

John, surprisingly, the beverage didn't taste bad.  Today I made a similar beverage but also added lemon rinds from an organic lemon.  I have read the same thing about the mustard seed powder and also another method of getting the suloraphane which I believe I got from George Mateljan is to chop up the cruciferious vegetable and then let it sit for 40 minutes before cooking.

I have not ordered the Bravo yogurt yet but remembered that you are taking this probiotic rectally.  At Amazon I can order suppositories (12 for about $200).  Three reviews of the product were extremely positive.  Recommended dosage is once a week.  Is this what I should order?

Jack

RE: The ketogenic diet and cancer

by chalmj on Thu Nov 02, 2017 03:54 PM

Quote | Reply

Jack,

I guess the radiation treatment your indicating is not the same as for HNSCC as maybe they don't flood the area just target the tumor. Still, 65 greys is alot of radiation. I wonder if others with the same or similar cancer have been treated in this way and how are they doing.

It angers me that most of these cancer treatment places don't even establish a forum or feedback loop for patients to talk about how a particular treatment went. It's like we all have to be the first - no one went before - no information on the results - just have to accept what were told from the car salesmen only interested in selling the car but with no  indication of what the outcome will be. I personally think they don't want patient feedback information.

I use a glass syringe purchased on ebay with a rubber or silicon enema hose to inject about 60ml of Bravo rectally every day. I also take it orally at bedtime swishing it around the oral cavity for as long as I can before swallowing it. I also do kefir and store bought yogurt during the day and kimboucha too.

John

 

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